Recently, Pastor Harvey Burnett and the Peoria Assn. Of Pastors For Community & Spiritual Renewal sent the District 150 Board of Education a letter stating that they hold the BOE accountable for the results of the educational experience of the black and minority community and requested that they meet with them to address the fact that black students tend to be suspended at much higher rates than students of other races or ethnicity's.
Peoria Dist. 150 Board Members,
The minority suspension rate is far too high within Peoria School Dist. 150. I believe that we must open public debate over this issue. There is no one solution fix to this problem, but there are solutions as have been demonstrated around the country in various education and discipline models, that successfully address and have lowered minority suspension rates within public schools.
I believe that we must seek to create a much better education experience for all children and not continue to be tricked into affirming that "the home" is the only problem with many of our children. In many cases the educational system itself has failed to reach our children.
Testing arguably displays what the child has learned, but the opportunities to learn is what we want to increase. As the number bear out Out Of School Suspensions (OSS) and it's little brother In School Suspensions (ISS) have disproportionately effected Black students in District 150 for quite some time. We can change that if we try. I call on each of you to help facilitate that change.
I would like to meet with you to discuss our current findings and create a sustainable action plan that will address this highly important issue.
Pastor Harvey Burnett
The questions must be asked:
1. Has Peoria District 150 failed the Black and minority community? By not fulfilling the educational opportunities of ALL children it would seem that District 150 has failed a significant segment of its students, families and ultimately the community in general.
2. By suspending nearly 30% of Black students, is District 150 serving the educational needs of the Peoria Black population? One would say that Black education is important, but that does not hold true to the numbers. Is it possible that 2,567 students are not bad enough to expel, but yet bad enough to suspend and in some cases allow the disruption of the education of willing students?
3. Since the problem can be so easily and readily identified, what steps is District 150 taking to solve this crisis and is there a sustainable plan or effort in place to correct the problem? If not, WHY NOT? This problem is systemic in nature and cannot be addressed with a fix addressed to either parents only, teachers only, administration only or any individual segment. The part that is baffling is that there is NO plan in place to address the issue as we write this article.
Peoria Dist. 150 Board Members,
The minority suspension rate is far too high within Peoria School Dist. 150. I believe that we must open public debate over this issue. There is no one solution fix to this problem, but there are solutions as have been demonstrated around the country in various education and discipline models, that successfully address and have lowered minority suspension rates within public schools.
I believe that we must seek to create a much better education experience for all children and not continue to be tricked into affirming that "the home" is the only problem with many of our children. In many cases the educational system itself has failed to reach our children.
Testing arguably displays what the child has learned, but the opportunities to learn is what we want to increase. As the number bear out Out Of School Suspensions (OSS) and it's little brother In School Suspensions (ISS) have disproportionately effected Black students in District 150 for quite some time. We can change that if we try. I call on each of you to help facilitate that change.
I would like to meet with you to discuss our current findings and create a sustainable action plan that will address this highly important issue.
Pastor Harvey Burnett
The questions must be asked:
1. Has Peoria District 150 failed the Black and minority community? By not fulfilling the educational opportunities of ALL children it would seem that District 150 has failed a significant segment of its students, families and ultimately the community in general.
2. By suspending nearly 30% of Black students, is District 150 serving the educational needs of the Peoria Black population? One would say that Black education is important, but that does not hold true to the numbers. Is it possible that 2,567 students are not bad enough to expel, but yet bad enough to suspend and in some cases allow the disruption of the education of willing students?
3. Since the problem can be so easily and readily identified, what steps is District 150 taking to solve this crisis and is there a sustainable plan or effort in place to correct the problem? If not, WHY NOT? This problem is systemic in nature and cannot be addressed with a fix addressed to either parents only, teachers only, administration only or any individual segment. The part that is baffling is that there is NO plan in place to address the issue as we write this article.
51 comments:
I am not clear -- it it the position of the pastors that these expulsions and suspensions are unwarranted? Do they believe that black students have been wrongly targeted. OR, are they simply stating the stats and saying hey, we know they are naughty but District you need to figure out how to deal with that and keep them in school??
On the other hand you have Sharon and a host of other bloggers complaining that the District is still a place where education can happen "if only" there was more dicipline, which many claim is sorely lacking??
Yes, and here I am. I wish that all of you could have heard the young black men who spoke at tonight's board meeting (and you should be able to hear them on WMBD's website this week as Diane Vespa is now taping the meeting and WMBD will air it online)--young men who are currently enrolled in Hedy Elliott-Gardner's GED class at Taft Homes. I met one of them at last night's District Watch meeting and then three of four them came with us to a cook-out at the Adkins-Dutro house. As it turned out, one of them recognized me as I had been his teacher in summer school several years ago before he was incarcerated. All were amazing speakers. One young man who, I believe was incarcerated for 10 years, learned many skills while in prison (including a trade and an interest in horticulture)--and we remarked that he is ten times the speaker than is the new principal of the charter school, who is very lacking in speaking skills. Terry Knapp had spoken first tonight about the district's failure to provide the kind of education needed by many young people, young people who will not go to college and need a trade, etc. Terry spoke of a Manual grad who owns a shop where Terry just took his car--the young man didn't go to college but is now a millionaire--who had learned his skill in auto mechanics before 150 eliminated all vocational classes. Any way the main theme from all of these young men was the need for a much different kind of education than the one-sized college-bound education that is offered by District 150. The lack of vocational courses, I believe, has created many of today's discipline problems--because school is a place where many kids have no chance or desire for success. I'm tired or I would go on and on because these young men do have some of the answers for which we are all looking. Of course, they all were humble in their admission that their insight comes from hindsight--that they messed up their lives at an early age. But they were pleading for help not just form themselves, but for others just like them. As a PHA employee pointed out, an alarming number of young men are released from prison daily with no skills and no hope of finding jobs. Anyway we were all inspired by these young men--and by Hedy who is doing an amazing job (and has previously and still does teacher at the jail) with this GED class that will soon be shut down because of lack of funding. The right kind of education is one of the answers to discipline problems--but District 150 should not be shamed into allowing bad behavior with no consequences just because there are more than some quota of students who cannot or will not function in an appropriate manner in a school setting. When throwing round these statistics, we still have to remember that some schools have a 70 to 90% black enrollment--so why wouldn't we expect the majority of suspensions and expuslions to be black students? That's just common sense. But part of the solution is to provide a different kind of school setting and curricula.
Sharon, what the statistics say is that, while blacks make up 61% of the total student population, they make up 86% of the suspensions. Put another way, out of 100 black students, there will be 29 suspensions. Out of 100 non-black students, there will be only 17 suspensions.
This is not a statistical anomaly, but a sample size that is the entire student body. The question is WHY are black students nearly 70% more likely to be suspended than non-black students and HOW is that trend being addressed?
Jon, do the statistics differentiate black males from black females, etc.? I have always been just as upset by the number of young black males who had so much difficulty fitting into the school environment. I can honestly say that I just have always had a special compassion for this special group of young people--many were my personal favorite students. I probably worked too hard to keep them in school--and that was probably detrimental to the others whose learning environment was hampered by these young people. I honestly believe that I am the wrong person to attack on this subject. My compassion was my only real solution--I was at a loss in finding any other solution. These kids have so many obstacles in their lives; it's difficult to know which one should be attacked first and which, if conquered, would free them to be successful. You're good at statistics, Jon, but what is your experience with young people in this category? And I can guarantee you that Hedy is way ahead of me in her work with these young people. Actually, we have shared experiences--I often knew some of the same young men while they were in school--Hedy comes to the rescue while or after they have been incarcerated. Yes, I wish that I could have done more to keep them from that fate.
Emerge: Please excuse me here. I say Bullshit! It just happens that blacks are the ones causing the trouble more often than students of other color. Sorry. That is the way I feel and I don't feel that anyone is picking on students because they are black. Are we suppose to ignore a student who happens to be black because we have reached the percentage level?
I would expect that after 46 years since the Civil Rights bill was past, the black community would look in towards itself to ask why these things happen and stop pointing fingers to others. Maybe even the pastors of black churches and the local NAACP step into the schools themselves and look for solutions. Talk has long since passed.
I would wonder what if alive today what Dr. King would say about society and the crap that happens in our schools.
Mrs. Crews,
You asked:"Jon, do the statistics differentiate black males from black females, etc.?"
That is the next round of data that we will collect. That data I'm sure was available, but we didn't ask. Quite frankly, I was surprised by what we received and it kind of set me back.
Without having data in hand, I am confident that when a breakdown is done we will find that the majority of suspension are black male and that most of those on a % and ratio analysis are from traditionally inner-city type schools. I could be wrong, but I believe that will be the case. I'll find out for sure very soon.
Now, Jon is right...we need to ask the question regarding the trend and what actions are being taken to address the trend. When students are excluded from educational opportunities, that's never good for the community, family and ultimately society.
We know that in some cases there may be home and family issues responsible for bad behavior, and then there are school and teacher/in class issues also. Please note (and I think we know) that the activities at Trewyn captured on video aren't the norm. many of those students deserved the strongest disciplinary measures. However, they are the extreme.
On the other hand we have subjective disciplinary techniques that are disconnected from the learning styles and effective disciplinary methods of the children.
Example: Some students arrive extra early at school because either parents work or for any number of other reasons which include bad living conditions at home. In some cases they arrive before many teachers. Rather than accommodate the students, I heard an administrator threaten to give an detention and ultimately suspend a student for arriving early...I mean, penalize a student because you won't accommodate their early arrival???
Another example: You have a child known to disrupt the class and bad behavior. He/she slaps a good child and good child defends himself/herself, the defendant gets suspended too...RIDICULOUS! The teacher knows who the predator is normally and a child doesn't go to school to get beat by anyone, why are they penalized for their own self-defense???
easy answer, "Well we don't know who started it"...GET REAL! They know, they just have no extra concern or care and think that setting an example means more than getting it right and resolving the issue. in that sort of case the teacher is responsible for classroom safety...I want to know why the teacher was so disengaged that abuse or battery of another student couldn't be prevented???
This is not all about the student we have some culpability all around.
I'll say more later.
Thanks,
pastor Burnett
One thing is for sure, the Anti-Pundit doesn't know the facts and is full of the same type of stereotypical garbage that the education system doesn't need.
Now, stop for a minute and ask yourself...why are we paying $3.2 Million per year for an inadequate lunch program. A lunch program that some of the cafeteria people "cry over" because they have to serve it to our students...A menu that included re-fried beans with NO BEANS!, Spicy taco's so hot that grown ups, who like spice, cry when they eat it...
Now. Dr. Gorenz says he wants healthy choices in the schools, but what about food that the students don't and can't eat???
Just in case Anti is lost...Malnutrition has a DIRECT LINK to child behavior...Why does this district starve the children then discipline them for acting like the study says that malnourished and hungry children should act...Dr. Gorenz NEVER addressed that issue and they have been talking about this for years! Some of these kids only get one to two meals per day on a good day.
Get outta here with a cookie cutter answer and the RACIST and NEANDERTHOL GARBAGE that blacks behave more inappropriately and break the law more in school...
The problem is greater than that and if his comments represent the education community of Peoria (by any nightmarish standard) we're in trouble!
Pastor Burnett
Sharon, I was not attacking you - just trying to explain the statistics more. As for a solution, we all know there is no easy one, but I'll quote Emerge:
"This problem is systemic in nature and cannot be addressed with a fix addressed to either parents only, teachers only, administration only or any individual segment."
Pastor Burnett, I think everything everyone has said on this post has validity. Examples of bad behavior on the part of students and/or teachers can always be found. The one thing for sure is that discipline problems in schools have increased dramatically even since I retired. I have heard stories that are verifiable about students physically attacking teachers at Manual--one just a couple of weeks ago. That just didn't happen when I was teaching at Manual--or if it did there were few such occasions over many years. Teachers may have been attacked verbally but not physically. As for the Trewyn video, I watched it, of course. I was amazed at how upset people were about that. Students were behaving inappropriately but they weren't exhibiting any of the more defiant behaviors that happen more often--if those had been taped, people would really have been shocked and outraged--I believe you would be, also. Condoning or supporting or excusing any bad behavior is not helping these young people. Some other way of dealing with the problem must be found. For instances, siutations such as you mentioned. There is no reason why someone can't or shouldn't get to the bottom of stories such as the one about children being told they will be punished if they come to school early. I know that George Graves and I traditionally were the first to arrive at Manual in the morning. By the time we arrived in the cafeteria there was a whole room of young people who had arrive early to school--some too early. We took it upon ourselves to control things if behaviors got out of hand. However, there came a time toward the end when fights were breaking out and there were no official employees officially on duty. I did not stick around because I knew I could not stop fights, etc., and I did have to get to my own classroom. I do disagree that a teacher always knows which student starts what. Heavens, a year before I retired, a student was regularly for several days throwing nails at me and I couldn't figure out who was doing it. Teachers are about the business of teaching and a child waits until a teacher's back is turned or until a teacher is intent on helping another student, etc., to hit another child. Kids aren't stupid; they know how to time their bad behaviors. I agree that suspensions are not effective--they do not change behavior. However, with what would you replace them? These disruptive young people simply cannot be allowed to destroy the learning environment. Please, please acknowledge that the schools with the most discipline problems are in the lowest economic areas (and the children are often black). Then please acknowledge that the children most harmed by the bad behavior of other children are more often than not black children. Face it, unfortunately, white parents have taken their children out of 150 schools in droves. Now the black community has to decide whom to support--the few children who misbehave (and most suspensions are repeaters) or those whose educational opportunities are harmed by disruptive behaviors. You can accept Jon's point of view, but we don't know how Jon would react if he were a teacher in these situations or if his children were in the situation--but he isn't and they aren't. Pastor, you know that I want to solve the problems as much as anyone (or I hope you do), but please don't travel down this quota road of percentages. Those are numbers; we are talking about people and real situations. We all fought and lost the battle about the hiring of a company to prepare food for schools--we once had such a good lunch program with District 150's own cafeteria workers.
Pastor Burnett
Here are a couple of things you may want to look for in the data:
1. In the likely link to low income and suspensions, I wouldn't be surprised to see that there is a significantly higher percentage of blacks in D150 who are low income than non-blacks who are low income. Thus, the suspension problem may be more about low income (and why black students in D150 are more likely than non-blacks to be low income - a different focus on the issue) than it is purely about black vs non-black.
2. I would also try excluding students who have two or more suspensions from the data - then see how the remaining data reads (is there still a higher percentage of blacks suspended than non-blacks?) If so, you can focus more on that core group of "multiple suspension" students. It would still mean that blacks are more likely to have multiple suspensions than non-blacks, but the group of concern would be more limited.
Jon, sorry, your comment came on while I was adding another remark about your use of statistics. Thanks for the clarification. Of course, I agree with Emerge's quote. However, each group does tend in specific cases to blame someone from one of the other groups. My primary concern is the involvement of the children in this controversy. Children should not receive conflicting messages such as "It was the teacher's fault." All those discussions need to be held so as not to give the child the idea that their bad behaviors will be excused (but the discussions do need to be held). But everyone should be allowed to give his/her side of the story. I welcomed the opportunity to speak to parents to sort out truth from fiction (stories kids tell at home) and to apologize if I had behaved badly in a given situation--we are all human and we all err. Granted action should be taken if a teacher does nothing but err--if it's a matter of character, not a matter of a slip up now and then.
Sharon, what did you mean by:
"please don't travel down this quota road of percentages." ?
and when you said:
"You can accept Jon's point of view, but we don't know how Jon would react..."
what do you think my point of view is?
Jon,
Advice well taken.
It is interesting that last year there were 2600 students (approx.) that generated that amount of suspensions. Now, that disturbs me also...why are repeat offenders allowed to ruin the educational experience of others?
We must, in my opinion, safeguard the educational experience of those taht come to learn and provide more of a quick intervention and solution for those that are antagonistic and only want to cause problems.
This is a fine line and it takes a good "sense" of the child to determine but I think we can take even the proverbial "bad apple" and turn them around with the right support.
Believe me I'm not blaming the school in total, there's enough blame to go around. Don't think that all of these problems are a result of a bad home...some are the result of a bad or disconnected educator and educational experience.
Jon, I was just being my usual self in attacking your bent to turning mostly to numbers. However, about your most recent informative post, I am in total agreement. Pastor, I do agree with your last post. One point of clarification, however, deals with your suggestion that the right support can turn a child around. I do believe that individual students have been turned around by an individual teacher--but that is the exception, not the rule. A classroom teacher is not afforded the one-on-one time required to both teach the ones prepared to learn and to provide the extensive attention needed to do what you propose. It's a great idea and many of us would have loved to have been that agent of change, but learning time cannot be taken from others to do what parents and his/her other family members should have done from the day the child was born. This turning around process often requires the efforts of all people involved in the child's life. And like it or not, what happens from birth to school age, from 3 p.m. to 8 a.m. the next morning, on weekends, and during the summer determine more about the child's development than does time spent with one teacher--time that by necessity has to be shared with 20 to 30 other children, many with the same emotional and learning problems. Teachers cannot continue to be expected to be miracle workers--sometimes we are, but that, also, requires a whole lot of divine intervention.
I think some of the confusion may be that when people such as myself talk, that we are interpreted as being a "bleeding heart". ie: “don't be too hard on the kids.” There's nothing further from the truth...i only expect the same and even a greater standard of accountability from the teacher.
Adults EXPECT kids to act certain ways...I am a mentor in the School Buddy Program (actually all I need to do is get finger printed-no big thing) In the training manual on pg. 21 it says that 8-10 year olds are "very active and need frequent breaks from tasks to do things that are fun for them and involve use of energy"
What are most of these kids penalized for??? Being active and displaying their energy. Very few for mob action and other more serious acts...Now, you know what the teaching model looks like in Dist 150 that leads to almost every offense? "Sit down and be quiet and don't move until I say move!"
When this is the standard for over 8 hours a day, what type of outcome do you expect? When you have professional studies that teach you that children need to be better engaged by the teacher and those from whom they are receiving information?
That same page says that the same age group is "very sensitive to praise and recognition. Feelings are hurt easily"
Now these are educators. They are in the position and seat of authority and you mean to tell me that these kids can make them, yell, cuss, push and pull on them and ultimately lose their jobs??? This is horrible.
I was so proud of a teacher today. She had the class rockin'...a bunch of 8 year olds, answering questions being engaged AND reminding one another to be respectful...she didn't have to constantly, "sit down", "raise your hand", "be quiet", "stay in your seat"...y'u-know what happened. The kids that had to throw something away were allowed to do so with being yelled at...they found their seat without stopping to visit. Some were allowed to speak without being told to "shut up" or "be quite"...They knew how to raise their hands and wait to be called on. They enjoyed the class and at the end their minds had been challenged!
That's what we need. That's what we need to duplicate and encourage.
Be tough when it's time to be tough, but be human...these kids aren't in prison neither are they prisoners...stop taking away recess as punishment and shortening the lunch as some kind of penalty because they wouldn't be quiet enough...
That's what I mean by "disconnect"...you wouldn't want your children to be treated like that during the course of the day, why be accepting of it when others are treated like that...Get the truly bad ones, but stop lumping them all together simply because its convenient to do so.
I've been intimately involved for almost 12 years now with my 2 children and I know what I know, I've had multiple conversations and had to put some folk in check. My kids were blessed to be born to 30+ aged folk. We weren't young and uninformed as most 20 somethings and in many cases teenagers are when their children are placed in the system. If it weren't for our knowledge and demands on the teacher to be accountable to us, Lord knows what our children would be right now. Now every parent can do what I can this is why I lend my time and knowledge to the issue. We can all do much better!
Pastor H. Burnett
This is some good stuff. I've been asking these questions for a few years. According to sources, it is also important to get records not only of "who is being punished" by "who is doing the punishing". In other words, it would be enlightening to see the change in disciplinary interventions at "X" school upon a change in leadership. Might that trend follow a particular leader from school to school? Can you get us these stats by individual schools? It should be included in the improvement plan...but that won't happen (IMO).
But Pastor, part of the "fix" must come from the home. Many young children cannot function within a structured classroom because they are simply not used to. In order for a child to be prepared to do their best at school, especially young children, they need a schedule and rountine that they follow at home.
Can I get an Amen to Pastor's last post? In my school, some of the teacher's and aides act angry and aggressive towards the kids. I have seen it every day with the same staff members for 6 weeks. I see it with the lunchroom staff yelling at the children. I do not see it with the Principal. I stand in their full view and they will just carry on berating a CHILD. It is part of the problem. I have brought it to the attention of my children's teachers and the Principal. I feel like our school could use a social worker in every hallway to call out these teachers and aides on how they "communicate" with children. It is sad.
Jen - perhaps you should not stop with the Prinicpal. I would contact a Board member. Not acceptable. Good for you that you are willing to step up and say something.
Peoria Pastors doesn't seem to know the facts and FREE lunches is something I do know about and you (or is there more than one of you) don't know the facts in that regard.
You can say I stereotype and I'll admit it but then so do you with your rhetoric. Talk talk but what action? I think the point of this post was that blacks were maybe being targeted which is why more blacks are suspended than "other" students. I am asking, should we simply turn away and ignore the problem because Hey too many blacks are being suspended?
I also would like you to point out which lunch people cry over the lunches they have to serve. I have eaten at the high school lunch program over 50 times this year. Here is what I see. The lunch is FREE to most of the students. Some get the tray, then dump it in the waste can. They would rather pull out a $50 bill and buy a slice of pizza. Yes a 50. This happens so often in the lunch lines that they no longer can keep change for 50s. So the kid breaks out a 20 and gets change, then heads out to the commons and buys snacks out of the Athletic coaches candy machines. First, I ask how does a student that qualifies for free lunch manage to have 50s and 20s in his pocket? Then I ask, why aren't these machines off limits during lunch. The first question I can't answer but the 2nd I can. This is where the coaches and Principal make their money.
Dear Pastor, that last thing you should bitch about is a free lunch. How about finding out why our schools in the inner city are always on the State's fail list? Why there are always fights at lunch times? Why they have to have police cars stationed around the school when school lets out?
Otherwise, I have heard your talk before. It does nothing.
You can call me what you want. I put kids through District 150 from Garfield to Trewyn to Manual and I volunteered in each of these schools for years. I think I know what is inside and I have yet to see a pastor there.
To Jen: My son is a high school teacher. My wife works in the schools also. Do you really understand the stress some student populations put on people? Do you understand how teachers feel when their own Administration rarely backs them up? Do you know what it is like to get punched in the eye by a 16 year old? Do you know what it is like to get threatened by this 16 year old's parent for turning him in? You haven't been to Peoria High on any given day have ya? I have with a school board member.
At 61.1% of the student body, the African-American students are not a minority. They are the majority.
This is an important distinction.
I know how hard it is to hear some of what Anti-Pundit is saying but he does describe scenarios that are all too common, at least, in our high schools. He has been around the schools, he is observant, and it is NOT a racial bigot. When I hear this kind of stuff from people who don't care about the southend (or live there) and don't care about black children, etc., then I bristle. However, I don't believe Randy falls into that category--he is just describing some real problems. I don't have the statistics--I'm sure they're out there. The way children are disciplined at home and the way they see adults treating each other determines how the children will behave in school. If a child is physically disciplined at home and shouted and cussed at, then verbal requests from a teacher will fall on very deaf ears. If children hear very confrontational verbal arguments among adults or if the children themselves are allowed to confrontational with adults or other children, then they will be confrontational with teachers and other students at school. Teachers just can't overcome these problems--especially, when several children in a classroom come from homes where discipline is confrontational. I used to be handle a classroom when only one or two students acted out--could even do much to change the behaviors of one or two, but the numbers have increased and it's a very difficult, if not an impossible task. I understand the temptation to excuse these behaviors because they truly aren't the kids' fault--but we all have to work together to break these cycles of behavior that harm so many young people. Blaming the teacher for sometimes over-reacting and/or becoming overwhelmed by these behaviors won't solve the problem either. Yes, teachers who consistently handle these situations poorly probably don't belong in teaching--but first find out if the teacher is being asked to put up with behaviors that absolutely do not belong in the classroom no matter what (and don't kid yourselves; administrators do make those demands of teachers.
I should clarify. These are interactions I see between teachers/aides/lunch workers and Kindergartners and First graders.
Anti~
He said:"I also would like you to point out which lunch people cry over the lunches they have to serve."
Why don't you follow me a day. Schedule and appointment and we'll coordinate and roll and I'll show you exactly what, who and where.
I'm not a novice, I'm there everyday. In fact I'm at Thomas Jefferson today and at Trewyn next week. This isn't anything new. The cafeteria people have complained ad nausium for months and even years. IF you were that involved as you claim, you'd know this...but no, you're looking at $20's and $50's, (supposedly) that kids are pulling out of there pocket...get real!
You said:"I have eaten at the high school lunch program over 50 times this year."
ANd I'll bet you're there on chicken nugget day...3 out of the 5lunches in any week are done just like what you state...thrown away! Why? Because they are no good...Now let that be the only thing you eat all day until about 2:30 or 3:30 and tell me how you act.
Here's another classist statement:"Here is what I see. The lunch is FREE to most of the students."
Now, there's 2 types of garbage, free garbage and the garbage you pay for...why is it that free garbage is not supposed to be handled as garbage because it's free? Why should I like free grabage any better because it's free? Garbage is still garbage is it not?
You propose that students should be "happy" because they're not paying for it right??? That's basically what you suggest...Well, since YOU are paying for it, shouldn't you get a better value for your dollar??? Instead of YOU placing pressure on the powers that be to make them use and spend YOUR dollars more wisely you blame the victim...the CHILD that this garbage is being fed to for not liking it enough...
This is similar to the man the beats his wife and tortures his family claiming that they should be happy for a home, a place to say and that all bills are paid...this is SICK!!!
Stop blaming the kids for throwing away garbage...I mean you did say, "Some get the tray, then dump it in the waste can."
Find out why they dump it. I'll BET you never stopped to ask one of them...I guess you were worried about being punched out... Based your statements here, I can't say that I blame you because kids can discern who really cares and who doesn't very quickly.
WOW!!!
Pastor H. Burnett
Please, please remember all the teachers (I was one of them) who fought the decision to replace the wonderful meals prepared by District 150 cafeteria employees with the meals prepared by the current company. I never again ate in the school cafeteria--I do believe the meals are inferior to the meals we received for years. And I believe the district saved no money in the process. Truly, we all wrote letters, went to the podium, etc.,--but, as usual, no one listened.
Mrs. Crews,
Not only are the meals of low quality, they can be prepared less expensively IN HOUSE, by making the high schools or certain schools hubs for preparation. This would not only be less expensive, it would also provide additional jobs. They have presented this information but because of little pressure from parents, they continue and make things of low priority.
Anti, says he ate 50 meals over the year...well obviously he didn't know that up until about 2 to 3 months ago, the cheese that the district was required to serve the stuudents had ZERO nutritional value...I saw the dv on the package and in EVERY category the label said ZERO...I have witnesses as the cafeteria persons and managers pointed it out to me...No nutritional value from cheese that the cafeteriaa was REQUIRED to serve students??? This is where his money (AntiPundit's), and your money was supporting...Feeding children substandard products and yet he blames the children????
Lunches are certainly by no means the whole problem, but as the district looks for solutions, place it all on the table...work this piece by piece and do the right thing for the kids. You want greater parent accountability, Other parents and I want greater school accountability at all levels.
Maybe Anti can come back on--because I'm sure he remembers the "In-house" food that was so much better. The 150 cafeteria workers did a great job preparing food and providing a wide and healthy variety. You are right; the parents didn't complain enough--although there was plenty of complaining when the change was made; we all just went unheard or ignored. Much of the complaining did come from teachers and we don't carry much weight--honestly. We know more about how kids feel and what kids need, but we (they now) rarely are asked for even an opinion. I'm willing to bet that teachers were not consulted with regard to summer school.
I'll be back but since I only have a minute and this is from my Blackberry, I'll say this. If any cafeteria worker is crying it's because the district can't get half of them to show up to work on any given day. The ones that do take the job seriously is because they care and work damn hard. I don't just go on chicken nugget day Pastor and I have asked the kid why he threw the lunch out. Because he is told to go through the line, enter his number so the school gets the credit and then he rather have a corndog anyway. Most are afraid that if they skip the lunch, they will be cut from the public aid program. And, your a Pastor? Well, praise God you don't even know me yet you judge.
If the school prepared the most balanced, healthy, from the finest ingredients, well prepared meals, would those teenagers eat them?
Doubtful. I was a teenager once too. Yo! Give me a ding dong.
You all are talking about kids tossing their food in the garbage. I'm thinking... mm... sounds like normal teenagers.
Just sayin...
Since you have burr up your butt on the waste of money with school lunches let me enlighten you. Chartwells does the lunches, they are made for all the schools at the high schools. back in the day when District 150 did it in house, it was a school lunch. Not Jim's Steakhouse or even a McDonald's, just a school lunch. The State stepped in some years ago and said that school lunches had to be nutritious and included various items on each child's tray. No more snack shops that were so popular. No more Twinkies. That meant the District had to have on staff a dietary expert which they did for years. She retired and that is when the District decided that storing dry goods and frozen items, maintaining a State approved lunch menu and now they had to provide breakfast was too costly. They contracted out. I won't talk about Aramark as they only had it a year but Chartwells has been around for what, 3 years? They order the food from the exact same suppliers that the District would and they get a better price for the food because they order as a nation wide company. This relieves the District from hiring people to keep track of inventory, make up menus and follow the State regulations. Remember when kids protested the first year Aramark stepped in? I do.
Chartwells offers all Primary and middle school students breakfast and 2 entrees every school day. They offer up to 8 entrees at the high school level. This has never been done before. The reason kids throw away their food is because they only like one item on their entree and state law requires they have to take the complete meal, which might include peas, or beans, or whatever veggie being offered to make it a qualified legal lunch. So, they take the nuggets, or the corndog, or whatever and dump the rest. Have a problem with this Pastor? Then talk to the parents of these kids that waste food. The workers can not simply just give them one item, That doesn't qualify for a free lunch and the item has to be charged separately. The District gets no credit for the food cooked when that happens and no reimbursement from the state. This is where the fifty comes in. The kid knows full well he has to pay extra even though he qualifies for a free lunch, hands the cashier a fifty and expects change so he can then head out and buy soda and candy from the machines. This happens at the high schools every single day that the manager there no longer accepts fifties.
This program feeds many needy kids both a breakfast and a lunch that most don't get anything close to at home. While I volunteered at Tyng primary, I saw 3rd graders chow down two bowls of cereal in the morning and they kept close guard on the fresh fruit offered..
end of Part 1
Part 2
No granted, school lunches are what they are but Thomas Jefferson where you seem to hang out has opted out of the entree choices for their students at the request of the Principal there. This food, like all the schools the high schools cook for is prepared at 7am and leaves for the schools around 9 which don't serve it until 11am in many cases. Some food doesn't travel well, like the mac and cheese, which is the same mac and cheese anyone would buy at Kroger. The noodles tend to dry it up and when it's opened the manager at that school is supposed to add milk or water, still it up and make it look good again. They don't because they are too damn lazy to do it. Instead it's easier to bitch that is what they send us and they flop it on the kids tray. Same with chicken and noodles. It must be pre prep by the school people first. Some do this but most don't. Again, these people at some of these schools just open the tote and serve it as is. That is a sorry fact. As for the cheese having no value?? What the heck are you talking about. I would expect just to hear yourself bitch. The district spends more on fuel for school buses then it does on food service contract. Yes some of the food is a little different, like the pizzas, but some of it is damn good and I can attest to that because I have ate there with Jim Stowell and we watch and talk to the kids. They like the food by the fact that on popular menu days, nothing is left to sell.
The cafeteria people work their butts off in heat and with kids that treat them like shit. How would you like a kid saying to your wife; "Give me a burger bitch!" I have heard it and it took everything to keep me from going over the counter to kick his ass. The police handled it. How about the fist fights in the lunch room? They have no bones about hitting on of the woman workers. Think I'm afraid of these shits? Unless they are armed, I can stand my own.
The District saves a ton of money contracting out the food service. It employees District paid managers and workers who would otherwise be Chartwells minuium wage people who probably wouldn't care. Look at Pekin High.
If you got an itch about food service, you are barking up the wrong tree. It's a frickin school lunch that does meet state standards and has the proper food groups required to qualify as a state paid meal. The suppliers for that food are some local suppliers and would be the exact same suppliers if the district took over tomorrow. So exactly what is your beef?
Part 3
As I see it, most poor kids, in this District that is over 60% black, qualify for a free breakfast and lunch, some kids, this is the only quality meal they get unless it's your chicken nuggets at the Micky D's drive thru. My complaint is the unruly kids who think everything is owed to them and the people there to prepare these meals are nothing but scum they can abuse. Ever have your wife slapped at work? So don't tell me about what I know or don't I witnessed it and I am really tired of Pastors who show up after the fact and demand changes. Where have you been the last 20 years I have seen school lunches go from crap to entrees? It is just a school lunch and for the money, it is better than most restrauants and better than Micky D's in nutrition. You can lead them to the counter but you can't make them all eat. I have to wonder Pastor, How were your school lunches? In my day, there were no free lunches, you paid or you brought the old PB&J sandwich in the sack. Today I see a majority of the kids, at least high school level, enjoy and actually have a hard trime deciding on the choices offerd. As for the primary level and middle schools? The apperance and look of the food is that school manager's responsibilty. To heat it to temp, to add milk or water or what ever it takes. Sadly most don't like I said before. By the way, this food served the children is the exact same food serve the Board members before every school board meeting. I have been there when they are eating and almost all always say what excellent quality the dinner was.
If you are reading labels and seeing no value in a cheese product, then go to Pasquels and ask them. That is the supplier. Cheese is made of milk so I don't buy your dribble or you are being mis-lead which considering TJ, I would believe.
I think Anti knows quite a bit about eating lunch in District 150--I admit that my beef was with Aramark--I don't think Chartwell was around before I retired.
Anti,
You said:”Chartwells does the lunches, they are made for all the schools at the high schools.”
No kidding...now please say something that we don't know...
you said:”The State stepped in some years ago and said that school lunches had to be nutritious and included various items on each child's tray.”
That's not in question but this is..in Feb. 2010 Chartwells had to increase their portion size to district 150 children...do you know why? It was because they were UNDERSERVING the kids...this means they were giving them less food than what the governmental standards required for the meals...more of your tax dollars gone and yet you only complain about kids and what they do with a lunch that is both horrible and under nutritious. It's called grandstanding!
Now this shows how insightful you've suddenly become:”The reason kids throw away their food is because they only like one item on their entree and state law requires they have to take the complete meal, which might include peas, or beans, or whatever veggie being offered to make it a qualified legal lunch. So, they take the nuggets, or the corndog, or whatever and dump the rest.”
Now, I SPECIFICALLY remember you said the reason they do it was because the 1- the lunch was free and 2- they had money such as $20's and $50's and didn't care. They were a bunch of slouches according to you just milking the system. Now you're saying they eat what they like and get rid of the rest which is what reasonable people do any day...Which one is it? Can you make up your mind?
OK, this is your response I guess:”This is where the fifty comes in. The kid knows full well he has to pay extra even though he qualifies for a free lunch, hands the cashier a fifty and expects change so he can then head out and buy soda and candy from the machines. This happens at the high schools every single day that the manager there no longer accepts fifties.”
OK, now only poor kids with $50's do this...the wealthy kids or the ones not on a payment plan with the district love the food...It's only us poor folk that send our kids to school with $50's???
Do you hear how you sound???
You said:”No granted, school lunches are what they are but Thomas Jefferson where you seem to hang out has opted out of the entree choices for their students at the request of the Principal there.”
No, I've never been to TJ, I was supposed to go today but got caught with an intervention at another school...my mission there is NOT school lunches, it's adolescent behavior so much of what's said regarding that has no bearing on the convo...
You said:”I have ate there with Jim Stowell and we watch and talk to the kids. They like the food by the fact that on popular menu days, nothing is left to sell.”
What did I say? There are 3 out of 5 days that the lunch and meals are atrocious. The pizza day is one of the good days unless they're having the card-board pizza, chicken nuggets is the other good day and their might be another every other week...What did they have today? 2 sausages, 2 pancakes and tangerines. Good on sugar, but nothing else...You obviously need a menu
You said:”The cafeteria people work their butts off in heat and with kids that treat them like shit. How would you like a kid saying to your wife; "Give me a burger bitch!" I have heard it and it took everything to keep me from going over the counter to kick his ass. The police handled it”
Now, don't try to switch the subject...We're talking lunch quality. The kid should have been reported as you did and the problem addressed...instead you allow a thug to tempt you to break the rule and come to their level...that's the problem...that's another issue and it shouldn't have happened, but I wouldn't even think about loosing a job over a punk...that's what he was...anyway back to the subject...
You said:” So exactly what is your beef?”
My beef is this...the school lunches are overpriced, until Feb. of 2010 according to the records, do NOT meet the nutritional needs of the children and malnutrition has been linked to behavioral problems and issues such as ADD and ADHD. YOU complain that the kids are out of control...I acquiest that some are...we know that 2600 were according to the study, did malnutrition contribute to the results we received? That's questionable, but I say there is strong evidence that it did, does and continues to do. I further say that until we take this seriously and address the problem along with other areas, we're only playing with the issue and wasting tax payer dollars...
Now does any of that register with you???
You said this and it's true:”As I see it, most poor kids, in this District that is over 60% black, qualify for a free breakfast and lunch, some kids, this is the only quality meal they get unless it's your chicken nuggets at the Micky D's drive thru.”
That's why this is such an important issue. If funds are being used to support a program it should be quality and it should meet the needs because this may be the only good meal that some of them have each day...so you are on track there.
NEXT----
Anti,
You said:”My complaint is the unruly kids who think everything is owed to them and the people there to prepare these meals are nothing but scum they can abuse.”
You take the exception as the rule...that's the mistake, you assume that poverty is somehow linked to priviledge or an sense of entitlement...wrong and stop stereotyping the kids. BTW, it's aquite a few white kids that get free lunch also, and yes, some of them get suspended too unfortunately.
You said:”Ever have your wife slapped at work?”
No, I think those around her know better to begin with...even I know better that to try that...it'd be my last slap...
You said:”So don't tell me about what I know or don't I witnessed it and I am really tired of Pastors who show up after the fact and demand changes. Where have you been the last 20 years I have seen school lunches go from crap to entrees?”
Let's see 12 to 15 of em, I've been in and or around the school working on issues and raising my children in this system...prior to that, I assumed that you folk had it together and that it would be like it was when I went through the same system...I see they messed it up with overspending back then.
You said:” I have to wonder Pastor, How were your school lunches?”
They were pretty good. Made at the schools and lots of variety and guess what? I could pick what I wanted so I didn't have much to throw away...Lunch ladies were the people I loved to see everyday!
You said:”By the way, this food served the children is the exact same food serve the Board members before every school board meeting. I have been there when they are eating and almost all always say what excellent quality the dinner was.”
I believe what you say but I certainly don't believe their assessments...I've seen it for myself...I've got pictures and some other stuff I'll post in a minute...So far as the cheese, I'm talking about what Chartwells supplied and EVERYBODY knows it...Like I said they got on this in about Feb of this year and changed it...It wasn't even process cheese food previously it was something else...I've got witnesses, they are the ones who brought it to my attention...
Look, you're not so bad but you do need to leave the stereotypes at the door...this system is broken and needs a fix in many areas. It will take some thing s to get it fixed but there are many components.
When we first began at Kellar we had the school lunch ladies and I thought the food was very good. My kids loved eating school lunch. After Chartwell came in, it was awful. The lady in charge of lunches at Kellar used to get so upset. Food quality poor, not hot when they received it and they did not have sufficient facilities to reheat, etc. I remember one day it was french toast sticks and it was for lunch. Also there was this sausage wrapped up in a pancake for lunch. Both items were stone cold. I never allowed my children to eat lunch after it was contracted out and I saw what was being served up. I really feel for children that rely on school breakfast and lunch as their primary meals.
Btw,
Maybe I assume too much from those wondering about food and behavior/ suspensions etc...i'm sorry for moving along too quickly
You should check out these links:
Science Behind feeding the Brain
How diet and nutrition impact child's learning ability
Nutrition behavior and learning
A presentation from school-lunch.org
Another good one is the
NOHA on the link between diet and behavioral problems.
That may help clear up why this issue has importance, and should be addressed along with suspension rates.
Frustrated,
said:"Food quality poor, not hot when they received it and they did not have sufficient facilities to reheat, etc. I remember one day it was french toast sticks and it was for lunch. Also there was this sausage wrapped up in a pancake for lunch. Both items were stone cold."
That's what I'm talking about myfriend and it's not isolated...now I'll bet that Stowell didn't poick that day to eat a lunch with the kids...neither did the board eat that meal for their dinner...In fact I could think of a meal they counld eat if they're brave enough...they have a hot spicy, "something" that's so hot even adults cry. A maintenance man that loves spicy foods started to eat one and couldn't finish it...totally too hot...even the kids that like hot fries and hot cheetoes wouldn't touch it once they tasted it...
Now feed that to Dr. Gorenz and Jim Stowell, I'll bet we'll have an emergency meeting to cancel the Chartwell contract-LOL!!!!
Check out that link above from school-lunch.org...and then look at the
Appleton,WI.case...that should seal the deal...
We can't afford to undersetimate the effects fo an adequate meal program when we have almost 1/3 rd of the students being kicked out and loosing educational opportunities.
Ok. One more thing. My friend teaches at IVC and their lunches are caterered by Chartwell and she says the meals are fine, as school lunches go?? Wonder what the difference is. I think the student cost might have been even lower their than Dist. 150.
OK I respect your opinion let me respond: First, by law, the food that comes in to the schools from the high schools has to be temped (temperature taken) when it's opened. That temp has to be logged on paper and submitted and if it is in the proper parameters, it has to be heated.
Harv: Of course Chartwells was caught sending less food then required. I don't doubt it a bit but on the other hand, some mangers don't know how to properly portion out food either. The waste coming back from schools is appalling.
As for the kids with the fifties. These are the thugs. Maybe I am stereotyping here.
When the kid called the person a bitch comment, no I didn't go to his level although I would have loved too for a minute. It was handled with proper authority so don't stereotype me.
A lunch worker has been assaulted by being slapped by a kid. For not wanting to break a fifty which is why I kind of brought up the fifty thing anyway. Nothing was done. I don't understand your answer on this. The kid should have been arrested.
As for food being served the Board, yes it is the exact same food but there is one Board member that complains more often than not about it when it's served. I have noticed though this Board member eats it though.
BTW, yes white kids get free lunch also. The object of Emerge's post was that maybe black kids were getting suspended more than other kids. Well duh.
We can go back and forth here for years. Exactly what would you propose? I don't think the school lunches are all that bad. Even you admit most days they are good. So what would you do?
Me? These kids that do pay for lunch it cost them $1.55 or something close. When can one get a lunch for that? It seems you are concerned about cost and quality. Again, what suppliers would you use? Would you hire Chefs? What do you expect from a school lunch? My thought is that you have a rub in for Chartwells.
Pastor and Anti--your willingness to go back and forth on these issues is appreciated. And, I think, you came to considerable agreement in the end. From all I've read and know of both of you, I think you both care about District 150--and ALL its young people. Although I have never eaten Chartwell's food, I believe not much good came from the change to a company.
wonders if Dist. 150 would allow
me shoot video of a school lunchroom sometime, just to see
how many lunches are thrown away, or if there are behavior problems
at lunchtime...no matter if it is middle school or high school.
Dennis in Peoria--I know it's ancient history for me to comment, but I certainly noticed that students threw lunches away at MHS and absolutely witnessed behavior problems--lunch time was a favorite time for fights. Students are smart, however. If they see a stranger (and Anti-pundit wouldn't be a stranger) or a camera, they will probably wait for another time. You'll have to be very sneaky. Ha!
Anti,
Thanks a lot and forgive me for the "knee-jerk" reaction I had to your commentary initially...
Now for one, I don't have a tolerance for children threatening anyone especially adults in that type of setting...that was horrible and you did the right thing. We need to weed those characters out, find out what's happening and if they can't get it right make some sort of alternative arrangements. So my best to both you and your wife for the injustice that you went through.
So far as Chartwells, until I started doing my own investigation, I didn't care about them and what they were doing. However, I find that they have seemingly two types of offerings in their food list, one being "better" or of more quality than the other. it would seem that they are offering the lower quality meals to our students.
My interest is how (potentially) that decision is effecting student behavior. The studies say that nutrition does have an effect. If the district is as concerned as they should, I believe they should initiate a review based on the most modern information available. That's my concern. Unless this issue is raised things continue as usual. So rather than simply blame Chartwells, I also question the district's position and how they allowed this without any accountability. I mean THEY have these nubers and statistics. Whay haven't you or I heard about any of it? Why didn't we have this conversation before they renewed the chartwell's contract at over $3 million annually and gave them a 1.9% increase???(I believe)
Even though black students are primarily effected the greater scope of this is that ALL students receiving these meals are equally in trouble. Now neither of us will intentiaonally underfeed our children...I may not look like it right now (LOL) but last meal goes to the kids if I have to drink water...and none of us will feed them mud. We'll give them the best of what we are able to provide.
You can't tell me that this is the best and if it is, I'll shut up. I say, spend the tax dollars better...find out the problem and stop simply saying it's the students or parents fault. The cases that are solely students and parents fault, I believe are a minorty and we must reach them another way.
But I say simply give all these kids a chance. Let's see if food is contributing to the problem. I don't believe we'll be sorry.
Thanks and Emerge, I appreciate the opportunity to vent. As you can see I try to engage the ideas and concepts of others and I certainly don't know it all but I think Mrs. Crews will give me a solid "A" for trying...Now, Anti, from what I hear an "A" was a precision thing to come by in a Crews classroom...If you got one, you deserved it...we need to clone about 200 to 300 more of those and we'll be OK-LOL
I meant "precious" see I just dropped to a "B-"
Yes, you both get A's--and certainly my gratitiude for kind words--I believe that we can bring about positive change in District 150--even if it means being brutally honest (but not brutal) in expressing our opinions so that we can keep digging until we get to the truth and to solutions. God bless!
First, Dennis, why do you think they have their own Police force at District 150?? To give out awards? What a dolt.
Reverend: PEACE
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